Sexual harassment is a sensitive issue and one that I don’t take lightly. I think most women have experienced some form of sexual harassment in their lives, which is inexcusable. This post is not about sexual harassment though, it’s about the weird grey area of unwanted romantic advances. I had an interesting experience a few weeks ago that made me think about why some romantic behaviours will land a guy a date or flattered giggle and the same behaviours from a different man will get him labelled as a creep.
I went to a bootmaker to have a leather jacket and a leather bag fixed. I was greeted by a short, balding man probably only in his late 30s, who was quite softly spoken. Both of the jobs were very quick ones but he said I’d need to leave my items overnight. I told him I was leaving for New York the next day and if he could do them any quicker that would be great. He fixed both, on the spot in front of me and refused any payment. I thanked him profusely and told him I’d send all my friends to his shop. He then took my hand in both of his hands and kissed it three times. I very quickly excused myself and walked away feeling slightly dirty and a little confused as to what had just happened.
Initially, I was quite outraged. I don’t generally tolerate being touched by strangers, especially if their lips end up on me. Then I started replaying the scene in my head and re-casting his role with different characters. A camp, flirty gay guy? Totally acceptable. A charming old man? Completely fine. Cheeky, gorgeous young guy? Bring it on!
It occurred to me that the only reason why I was grossed out by his behaviour was because he was a) genuinely interested in me, unlike a gay guy or a charming old man and b) I genuinely wasn’t interested in him unlike a cheeky, gorgeous young guy. Obviously as a service provider, it wasn’t the most appropriate timing and location for him to choose such behaviour but, I’ve had the exact same experience at a cafe, with an obviously homosexual barrista and not felt nearly as violated.
I started to feel sorry for him, because honestly, how is he supposed to know whether or not I find him attractive? And whether or not his advances would be welcome?
My question to you is… do we have double standards? Do we categorise unwanted romantic advances as creepy, simply because the advances are unwanted? I only ask this because I obviously do. That was proven with my little experience with the creepy bootmaker. Who wouldn’t have been nearly as creepy if he looked like Orlando Bloom. Or behaved like Kurt from Glee.
Are we sending the message that only charming, handsome or sexually unavailable men can behave in a romantic way towards women?
Before we start commenting, this is not a discussion about actual sexual harassment. It’s never okay and should not be tolerated.
Feel free to chat on Twitter and Facebook too.
I would love to hear some male perspectives on this too.
23 Comments
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OMG I Completely agree with this! I have thought so myself a few times, we should totally be called out on our own bullshit with this..
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I personally would have been creeped out by that if it was anyone no matter how old/charming/good looking they were. That’s way too forward for me. I would honestly feel a bit violated.
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Exactly. I don’t care how attractive you are- if you’re a complete stranger and you violate my personal space, it is creepy as all hell.
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See I think this incident would have been way less creepy if I hadn’t been alone. If it was a european waiter in a restaurant making a show of kissing my hand, or being silly it would have been fine. But I was alone in the shop.
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Agreed! Regardless of age, sexual orientation, perceived attractiveness or otherwise, I would be creeped out by this clear invasion of personal space. I felt this way when I was single, I still feel this way now that I’m married.
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What an uncomfortable situation… I think there are more appropriate ways of expressing interest – I personally would have been a bit creeped out even if it was a gay guy or old charmer. Kissing is sexual, and I think it is hard come up with an appropriate response to an overtly sexual action like that. There is also the problem of him refusing payment… does he then think that you owe him something else? Did he take your “i’d be really grateful” to mean “I’ll give you a quickie behind the counter”??? Some people misinterpret and misread signals – but either way, he could have just asked if you want to grab a coffee or dinner. Do you think he was offended by your reaction, or just took it in his
stride? For the record, if I Orlando Bloom kissed my hand, I’d just think he was a player…. maybe your five minute retail interaction is your one chance at true love, but I’d guess that most relationships are based on people actually having a conversation and getting to know each other before the first kiss. (I sound so old fashioned! But I think it is probably true : ) -
This is a tough one–I think about this a lot actually. I think its more in the intention than in who it’s coming from…I find it flattering when someone genuinely wants to let me know they think I’m a bit of alright, but threatening when they expect something from you. I don’t think it’s ever ok for a random to kiss or touch you though!!
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There’s (at least one) article out there that proves this – woman are more likely to experience negative emotions when hit on by unattractive males and more likely to tolerate sexual harassment comming from males they find attractive. I just wish I could remember where I read about that study…hmm…
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Oh bummer! If you find it, I’d love to read it.
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I think there is a double standard for the more physically attractive and those less so. I know I am guilty of flirting with the hot guys that come in to work and maybe on occasion giving them a non warranted discount. Love it when the gorgeous boys come in and flirt, not so keen when it’s the sleazy old dad types who try and look down my top or just ones I don’t want to jump.
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I think everybody has these kinds of double standards, we can’t fully avoid this because our brains are partly hard-wired for making snap judgments, but we can try to keep it in check. Heterosexual men will also react very differently to an attractive(-to-them) or an unattractive(-to-them) woman making advances. Same goes for any other gender/sex combination. However, the situation in which there’s a guy making unwanted advances to a woman is further burdened by the historical power dynamic between men and women, residues of which remain today… this is why women tend to feel more threatened by unwanted advances (and often rightfully so). I think touching a stranger without permission is a big no-no in any case!
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I agree, I also think our brains speak to our instincts and tell us when someone is creepy. I think touching strangers is a no no, yet I’m always the one who everyone touches. I think it’s the hair.
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I don’t know if the looks of the person affect me so much as the appropriateness of the situation. If a strange person were to try and kiss my hand I wouldn’t be thrilled no matter who it was if we weren’t even acquaintances. I have had men wink at me, old and young, and also a guy kiss my hand and in each situation, I was familiar with the people and they were being more friendly and over the top than seductive. If they had been seductive, it might have been creepy. I guess that limits my experience. I do know that there are certain “moves” that I don’t tolerate from any man or woman. I was at a club recently dancing with a female friend and we were just hanging out together. Two guys kept coming up to us and trying to grab and grind into us despite the fact that we had glared at them, repeatedly tried to move away, and physically removed their hands and crotch areas from our bodies. One of them would have been attractive if his behavior hadn’t been so out of line. I enjoy dancing and don’t mind dancing with strangers but I do mind being grinded against and touched by people I haven’t even spoke with. That to me defines that creepy level of behavior that would be douchey for all men not just unattractive ones.
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I wrote this in reply to someone else but I also agree. I was alone in the shop which made it worse. Had I had a girlfriend with me or other customers it would have been different.
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Gret discussion Lady S!
I think that, as Bek has mention, intention has a large part to play. I mean, flirting is harmless fun and I think everyone does it in one form or other, and I think generally it’s a lot less sexually intended than we may think. Propositioning someone, however, is a VERY different story, as it has all of the associations with one party expecting more out of a situation than the other.
However, I also strongly believe that our minds are hard-wired to react negatively to people we don’t find attractive in these situations. I’ve dated guys who were complete arseholes and/or creeps, which didn’t bother me because I was so physically or mentally attracted to them. Likewise, I’ve had guys proposition me who were the text-book definition of the guy you’re supposed to want go home with, but the chemistry or attraction hasn’t been there, and it’s never gone anywhere.
I think you’re right about double standards, but I really don’t think it applise solely to women. I think we’re all ‘guilty’of it.
Xx
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I often discuss bring this topic up with any woman who tells me about how she’s creeped out with a guy giving her unwanted (or perhaps she thinks unwarranted?) attention. Certainly there is a complete double standard at play; if we receive compliments, gifts or attention from someone we are even remotely interested in, it’s charming, if however, that attention comes from someone we find uninteresting we tend to get all narky. “Why don’t they just leave me ALOOONE!” we complain in angst. My male friends act similarly, so I don’t think it’s a matter of a division between the sexes. In your specific example Lady Smaggle, I think it comes down to two factors: 1) The service industry. As Kat mentioned below attractive people often receive – as a by-product of their genetic blessing – special treatment. I work in hospitality and know how I can be superficial and give different treatment (that said, charming or polite people also warrant my special attention). Furthermore, as a woman I know I often flirt my pants off if I think it’ll help me get a little better service or make a grumpy wait/retail/customer service staff etc. not only give me what I need but perhaps make their day a little happier. Which leads me to point 2) Ethnicity. Now, although you’ve not specified any particular ethnicity about the bootmaker, and I may indeed be completely vilified for this, I know as a person of mixed Mediterranean background that things are done a little differently when you’re a ‘wog’. It’s completely acceptable to flirt, touch, vocally laud their charm/beauty, even kiss someone’s hand if you think they’re all that. It’s part of the culture to acknowledge the beauty of another person and while it can seem threatening to an Anglo culture that esteems, above all, the right of a person to their own personal space and finds gestures of praise invading or intimidating, it’s all part of the game…
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That’s incredibly interesting that you say that. Educated guess? I think he was Lebanese. That adds a whole other dimension to it now…
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Well! How’s this for topical synchronicity?! (Bear with me, it may get a little convoluted!) I was telling my boss about this discussion in the context of having practically attacked you when you came to my work last week (Saturday afternoon, cafe on Lygon St – and I didn’t even introduce myself I was so overwhelmed!). My boss is Italian/Australian and we were generally agreeing about how wogs act when I paused to serve a Greek lady who apologised for staring at me so much but she thought I was beautiful and more to the point that I was sweet, “Your name is Nokomi? Like loukoumi!!” (which means sweet in Greek). I had to laugh at the timing!
Anyhoo – My name’s Nokomi/loukoumi – nice to *meet* you Lady S!
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Holy moly! That’s bizarre! Thanks so much for coming up to say hi, it’s so lovely to meet my readers, hang around chat next time!
Lovely to *meet* you too!x
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I’m 16, but as a part time job I work as a dancer in an Irish Dance trope. We do performances and shows in bars and clubs and that’s my job. Short skirts are part of the job, and yes, I suppose we’re supposed to look conventionally attractive, that’s just part of the job. I’ve been hit on after performances more times than I can count, often offered drinks and other things. Reading this article made me think. I mean, they have no way of knowing that I’m 16- I’m working as a dancer, I look older than my age, and all the other women I work with are in their early twenties. From their perspective, they’re just trying to flirt with someone. From my perspective, it’s undeniably creepy. I really don’t know.
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i´m currently in south america as a foreign exchange student, and i do think that people have double standards. back home in the united states, i would be appalled by all the creepy comments that i often get here. and here when i do get them, if he is significantly older? hes automatically creepy. If i find him unnattractive? even creepier. While cute boys automatically get a blush, a smile, a giggle, and maybe even a hair flip. when i first got here ALL of it made me uncomfortable, and so i thought me being uncomfortable with any of it was just a culture difference thing. but then i started noticing the other girls who´ve lived here all their lives do that too. i mean ill be walking with them (and understand that my spanish is still shaky) and we´ll get a catcall. and if its someone ugly we glance and make a face of discomfort while he screams how were breaking his heart and after they´ll whisper, ew why is he doing that as we walk away(or something like that).if it´s someone cute theyll even go to the length of alking to him and asking him to give us a ride to the club were walking to,etc.
We definitely need to work on this because many women say things like “he only likes my looks” etc etc, when us women do the same thing.
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This gentleman made the mistake of being too accommodating. He should have provided standard next day service instead of being too nice and fixing the items on the spot. That would have avoided the uneasiness of the situation where you may have felt something of an obligation to reciprocate on unrequited feelings.
It’s almost the same as if the guy bought you a drink at a bar
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